I hate to say it but it seems that, ironically, having a strong faith in the treatment can be the most powerful predictor of the treatment's successful outcome... Sometimes I regret that I am so rational.

Look at the bright side: even considering the worst possible scenario, all the evidence points very strongly that TSM is not worse than any other currently accepted or proposed alcoholism treatment. It may, in fact, be considerably better in some/many cases but we don't yet know it for sure. Whatever it is, everyone who hasn't had success with other protocols should probably try TSM - it won't hurt and might help.

I am not cured and probably will never be but there is a world of difference between drinking 80 and 10-20 units per week.



I doubt very much that there are many people who were seriously harmed by TSM, much less died because of it. TSM users remain largely a tight-knit niche community. In the age of the Internet we'd almost certainly heard of such cases if they existed. (Your switching to whiskey and harming yourself strikes me like TSM is not as much to blame as you are).

I have to agree with Nutella here. Zero_Nine, you had built up your expectations of TSM so high and even claimed to have been 'cured' by the method fairly early on in the treatment. In the circumstances, you were perhaps setting yourself up for a let down if TSM was anything short of a miraculous cure. I had my concern about that when you posted of your 'cure' so early on. Let me just add that TSM is NOT Dr. Eskapa's book. It is, however, a method described in Eskapa's book -- perhaps too optimistically. That is an important distinction.

TSM is not a religion or a cult or something that has to be believed 100% in. It is nothing more than a simple method for reducing problem drinking. Anecdotal and other evidence suggest it is successful for many people. I personally look at NAL as a tool that provides me with a lot more control over my drinking. I am still not 100% convinced in the the theory of pharmacological extinction. NAL may simply work by muting the effects of alcohol and allowing moderation that way. Whatever the actual mechanism or theory behind TSM or taking NAL while drinking, the simple fact is it appears to work for many, including myself. The method will stand or fall on a scientific basis. I agree more study is needed.

As I write this I have a small hangover from drinking 5 small cans of beers last night over a period of 3 and a 1/2 hours. Pre-TSM I would never have a hangover from such 'small' amount; however, I had only had 3 units total in the previous 4 days. Because of TSM my tolerance for alcohol is back to that of a normal person and I am drinking close to upper levels of moderate drinking. That's a good result so far. It's still early stages. However, without Eskapa's book, I'm not sure I would have tried TSM.

I encourage you to continue TSM Zero_Nine. And to continue to post here. As I recall, you are still in the early stages of using the method. There is no religious commitment to it. If it works great. If not, try something else. Good luck.

My hopes were built up this way because that's the way it was described in the book. The impression you get when you read the book is that TSM if you are one of the 78% that will be cured and your alcohol problems will be over.

I'm getting pretty sick of this back and forth. Zero, you are either interested in pursuing this or not. If you continue and have patience, you could be one of the 78% that MAY be helped. If you decide not to proceed, please lets move on. If you've switched to whisky thinking you are helping to extinguish your addiction and your stomach is bleeding, well do something about it. Don't whine that TSM is the cause of your problems.

The book is what it is. No more, no less. If you read the book and expected to be cured and were not, well, it just was not the right thing for YOU, or there are other factors that are contributing to the continuation of your drinking that naltrexone is not going to fix.

And this constant call for further research is a bunk. Who is going to put money into research that takes a bunch of drunks - puts half on the Sinclair Method using Naltrexone and tells them to happily drink away, and leaves half to drink themselves into oblivion? Give me a break. And we blame Dr. Sinclair, and/or Dr. Escapa for this?

Don't we get this book thing? How the heck is the world supposed to hear the news about TSM if it's not shouted from the Amazon rooftops? Who will hear the news that: "well, there's this little guy in Finland, and he's come up with some interesting stuff, that might have helped a few Fins who didn't drink that much anyway, and gee, please give this a try." NO - it had to be "The CURE for Alcoholism.....etc." or it would have been buried.

Personally, I thank God every single day that the title and the contents were 'loud' enough for me to hear. I might still be in the depths of dispair over my drinking if I had not taken a chance.

If anyone has had one less drink over any period of time because of this book it is a huge success. And Zero you may simply have set goals for yourself that were unrealistic. There's one thing to be discouraged with your personal progress but it's another thing to go onto a site read by literally millions and trash a perfectly good method especially as even at 78% RELIEF that's BIG BIG BIG help for desperate people.

I've yet to hear of any of the dozens of people who post here or on My Way Out who have been harmed by either naltrexone or baclofen or a combination of both. Even our crazy cat LoOp who was throwing himself in front of cars has been successful.

Please let's THINK about what we do and say. This is the real world and it's a pretty cold uncaring place. The Sinclair Method works.

This is a discussion, we are using a discussion board and I'm not forcing you to participate. I have a right to be here since I am still participating in this treatment. When alcohol is no longer a problem I will have better things to do, but right now I am in problem solving mode. What are you still doing here, apart from criticising me? I am still trying to figure things out, and this is a useful place to do that. When I have figured it out I will no longer need the support.

I was not whining, I was arguing that TSM can cause problems. Forget my situation, because of this method people have graduated from occasional drinking to daily drinking. And in the case of that man's wife she is more dependant on alcohol than ever. I was showing how encouraging people to drink is potentially dangerous but obviously you don't want to hear it. I once was angered by the following comment on mywayout:


But actually being on the other side I can see some validity in what is said. I have not attacked anyone personally; I only reflected on my experiences and having analysed the evidence I wrote a review. I posted it here for the sake of transparency and to invite a rational argument. With few exceptions, my concerns have been rubbished and I have been attacked personally to boot. Whats the point in that? If you want TSM to survive and propagate you need evidence and it needs to be able to stand on its own two feet.



This is not how clinical trials work.



Show me where I have trashed the treatment, I just provided a caveat for potential readers. I haven't said anything that I can't support. Its not going to make much of a difference amongst the overwhelmingly positive reviews. If you want to see someone trashing the treatment there are plenty in MWO.

Zero,

I haven't been around the board much in recent weeks but I wanted to stop in to say that I hear where you are coming from. I've noticed many folks on the board think the book oversells TSM and doesn't give a realistic picture of the many pitfalls and challenges we've faced. Next week I'll have been on TSM for 4 months following the protocol like a perfect patient but the results have been disappointing.

I certainly have come a long way from the crash-and-burn dangerous drinking I used to to (which is a huge relief) but it did open the door to drinking regularly and in the past four months I've had more to drink than ever before. In all honesty, I would love to go back to being abstinent but I'm finding it very hard not to drink now that TSM has opened the door. Obviously, I take responsibility for choosing to try this method but if I'd had a more realistic picture of what it would be like I may have proceeded with more caution or not tried it at all.

I'm continuing to struggle with whether I should continue or attempt abstinence again. I've
given myself until the 1st of the year to decide.

I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from trying TSM because it has obviously been very successful for some but I agree that it wouldve been nice if the book gave a more realistic perspective. Having said that, sensationalism sells. Perhaps if the book were more toned down I might not have heard about it in the first place.

I don't agree about the physician angle though because I don't believe doctors always have all the facts and aren't always up to date on all medical issues. But, I've always been one to ask for physician opinions because I like to look at things from every perspective.

Good luck with the whiskey problem and to everyone else on the board!! BTDT

We are on EXACTLY the same page. I have made an appointment for the new year (Jan 15th) with a view to getting support for abstinence if naltrexone hasn't panned out by then. However, I'm home for Christmas and I have been out a few nights and I have to say my situation is showing tentative signs of improvement.

As for having medical oversight, I think in retrospect I made somewhat of an irrelevant point. There's very little your doctor can do to help you in terms of TSM- how could they when there is such sparse high-quality research to support it. Anecdotal evidence here is great for us, but your doctor won't put their reputation on the line for it. In saying that though, my GP gave me a script for it because he trusted what I said. I'm glad I told him because one way or another he was going to support me, and now he will fast-track to abstinence support if I request it.

We'll see how things go. I'm particularly preoccupied with this problem because I feel I can't get on with my life until my alcohol problem is sorted. People are married and stuff with families here. Thats crazy to me because I would find it impossible with a drink problem. Each to their own! I'll keep an eye on your progress BTDT.

I had promised to be supportive but I can't do that in this case. First you're cured, then you're not, first you think TSM is great, then you don't. Then you get drunk and tell the world that TSM is the pits, then you delete your review, then you say you are sticking with what you said. Really, I don't mind for myself, but I don't think this kind of childish ranting is YOU being supportive of others, or telling us your story in a coherent manner.

Once you make up your mind about what you want, and let us know what it is, I'm ready to support you 100%.

I think I'll stick with irrationality

Just for the record, I took down that review (ages ago) and I retract anything I said in this post. Truth is, I am in no position to judge anything objectively. I'm all over the place, like, gave myself a prostate exam this morning right after I drank a big cup of coffee. Next time I'll reverse the order.

Anyway sorry if I ground anyone's gears! I'm really not that big of dick in real life ...