Bob,brilliant!! I usually have something to say on the matter but u pretty much covered it..Great Idea,looking forward to seeing it....Goodman

Go for it on youtube! I'll comment on i and give it a thumbs up. I would recommend giving "how it works" a special burning.

"Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest."

What an absolute load this passage is! and for the unfamiliar, they read a plastic laminated version of this at the beginning of every meeting. How insulting is that?

They are basicaly saying "If you don't recover with our program, it is because you were born an asshole. We, being righteous beings who walk with the sunlight of the spirit, pity you....asshole."

he only thing I think might e dangerous is persuading sober AA'ers to start drinking just to try TSM. If they one of the 5% who are actually sober in AA, good for them.

I think if TSM worked like it says it does in the book, it would've picked up more steam by now. I'm waiting to be cured before I shout from the rooftops. I'm starrting to think Sinclair and Eskapa are doing a really crummy job getting the word out. Look at Sinclair's video? Really? Is that the best he can do? and the book is so sensationalistic. I have already posted the newsweek article on facebook, and I've had several folks ask me about it when they've seen me out. I just went to my 15 year reunion and some people asked about it. I didn't know that many people had seen my post. I honestly thought all those people had hidden me from their newsfeeds. anywho, I'd hate to cause people to relapse just to try TSM and then have 20% of them not work out. I mean if one person dies that way, it's one too many, plus it's a big blow to TSM which could save millions.

I ramble, I know I think burning the book might just make us look like just another bunch of nutty fanatics. You know.....like AA

It sounds like a good idea or youtube for fun, and I would cheer that on, but I don't think the first known group of cured TSM'ers in the states need to come off that way. at least not in an organized fashion. I wouldn't participate in it personally. I love the youtube thing though

"Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves."

This sounds a lot like some of the rationales from that era of why black people were inferior to whites, or why women shouldn't be allowed to vote. It was all about some innate failing that made a person somehow inferior in society. Which is obviously...I'm gonna go ahead and say bullshit.

How many other books written in the 1930s do we hold up as gospel these days? If you found a manual on car mechanics that was more than 70 years old, would you try to apply it to your late-model Toyota? I don't wanna go all Spock on you or anything, but logic dictates that new research always supercedes that which has gone before, and again I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the Big Book should probably be relegated to the same library where War and Peace, Pride and Prejudice and other dusty tomes reside.

I'm not sure burning the Big Book would do any good - it might just make us look like a crazed fringe element - but it would certainly call attention to TSM. So I'm torn, I guess.

This is one of the many things that disturbs me about AA..I would love more than anything to expose the truth about them..But who are "they"? Certainly not the desperate newcommers..Not the misinformed,yet well meaning majority of members..And probably not the 5% who have fooled themselves into believing that God and the 12 steps are keeping them sober..No,I think "they" are Bill and Bob..They wrote all that garbage then sold it to the world as a cure..A cure that lead to the deaths and wasted lives of who knows how many people? In my opinion Bill and Bobs lunacy lives on in that big book,and really should be burned,right alongside any book that suggests leaching as a medical cure..I don't see the threat to the people who claim to be sober through AA..They were gonna quit drinking anyways..To be quite honest,even if I had found sobriety through aa,I would be pissed When I found out about Tsm..Imagine spending twenty or more years,sacrificing all your time going to meetings.Living in constant fear of the dreaded relapse..Giving up friends and family who can't understand why you always have to put your sobriety first..And then you find out you could have put it all to bed in 6 months or a year and lived a normal life..Nah,I say burn it Bob...Maybe that makes me a fanatic but just like any spectrum,its the extremes that balance it out..Im with you Joe, on the not shouting from the rooftops until I'm cured..Not that I have any doubts about Tsm anymore..Just,who would take me seriously at this point..Good discussion and great that it is even allowed..This is truly a very informed and democratic bunch...Goodman

Sorry Weird-oh..I think we crossed posts..I love your analogy about the auto manuals..That is so true....Goodman

I'm no card-carrier for AA, but I think a little bit of perspective is called for here.

When Bill W wrote the 'big book' there were no treatment options whatsoever for alcoholics - they were regarded as people who were wilfully destroying their lives - i.e. ne'er do wells, wanton sinners etc. The concept of addiction didn't exist. People who saw what damage could be done started temperance movements all over the world. That is the context in which the book was written and AA was founded.

Now maybe there was some bigger purpose behind AA - some type of Christian evangelical crusade. But so what? Even if the aim of helping alcoholics was a secondary aim - it was still there. The group still helped and continues to help a lot of people. For a long time it was the only game in town. Bill W states in the original book that he could envisage a day when there would be a pharmacological treatment.

I look at AA people now and I see mainly good intentions in a group of damaged and fearful people. They've lived the battle and you can't blame them for being sceptical about some 'miracle cure' that sounds too good to be true. Especially so when there is only one published book in the area (and that by a psychologist not a doctor), and that book has the cheesy (and downright damaging IMO) subtitle of 'Drink yourself sober'.
For whatever reason (and we're aware of several) there is a distinct lack of medical scientific literature on the topic.

We're a tiny group of people with some limited semi-anecdotal evidence for a cure - that by the way doesn't match particularly well (in terms of timescale) with the only published work.

What is the likely outcome of 'taking on' AA and their worldwide publicity machine by 'book-burning'. Not very good I'd contend. We'd be putting ourselves in the 'loony extremist' bracket (think of how many sane people you know who engage in book burning). We'd be seen to be 'jeopardising the health' of people struggling with addiction. We'd be shouted down by AA who'd ask to see our evidence - eh....one somewhat hyperbolic book, a Finnish website and an internet persona called Bob. They'd talk about the millions of cured people (including many famous celebrities), many of whom would be happy to pitch up in the media if required. We'd look like lunatics.

So lets keep doing what we do. Lets engage people on the rational and not the emotional basis. Be open-minded. Don't diss the opposition. Concentrate on the positives of the alternative (TSM). Lets continue building the evidence. Convince your doctor and your colleagues/family/friends of the merits of what we do. Let the trickle become a stream. The stream will become a river. Just like the method itself - patience and perseverence is required

1-4, I'm too new here to argue about tsm..but I have over 20 years of expierience with AA..In all that time,it seems the only thing people can say in defense of the misinformation supplied to countless individuals is,what about the people it works for? Well,what about the people it doesn't work for?? They are left feeling dishonest,spiritually corrupt,dirty and hopeless..How many of those people find their way here?? A few hundred maybe?? Out of millions??I'm sorry, but something smells in Denmark my friend!! And Im affraid its the anti-intellectualism presented in Bill W's bible..Im not gonna get into percentages but can we agree that far more people fail in AA than succeed?? Why is everybody so concerned with the people who succeed?? THEY ALREADY SUCCEEDED..Geese Louise..What about the people who fail?? ok,so a few hundred or so find their way here..What about the other millions?? Nope,gotta disagree with ya,I still say burn the book..As a matter of fact,now Im gonna go buy another one and burn that..Bill W was a lunatic,womanizing,narcissist..That is the best modern science can offer..No thanks,Id wrather die drunk....goodman

I wish I had a good production crew, like the kind that do the TV political ads. The quality is almost always excellent and they get there message across quickly and with great force, whether you agree with that message or not.

I'm just a guy with a video camera in one hand, and a match and a book in the other hand, trying to set the book on fire while reading a convincing narrative and simultaneously filming it. And I only have one take because I only have the one big book.

Also, I decided I will no longer capitalize AA's "big book", as if it were divinely inspired scripture.

Bob

PS I am reading everyone's comments and I will address many of them in the narrative. I generally don't care for the idea of encouraging people who are successfully white-knuckle sober to start drinking again, but that is their decision to make. I will not discourage them either.

1-4, sorry,just one more question relating to approaching this in the "not emotional way"..Have you ever seen anyone die from alcoholism,who fought the good fight in AA?? I have,choking on his own blood!! couldn't even get the words out..Bad enough he died that way but the **** AA put in his brain?? Not smart enough,not good enough,didn't pray enough,must've had a resentment,didn't do a proper 4th step,should've called his sponser more often,missed a meeting last week,etc,etc...Dude,that was my best friend and he tried harder than any one I ever fuckin met in a church basement..So you keep waiting for your little river to flow 1-4, and don't worry abot spreading the word a little faster..There is plenty of time..Im gonna take a little break from this feal good ****..Ill come back when my numbers are down and I can make a better show for the AA folk..Goodman

I just started taking naltrexone properly 2 weeks ago. So, I just started TSM and counting units and taking the medication before drinking sessions only. My ultimate goal is abstention, and I am hoping the extinction will occur by the end of the year. With that said, I really, really enjoyed throwing away my AA book last week. Geez I did not like that program. I am so hopeful TSM works for me. I appreciate listening to all of your advice about the journey ahead.
Kind Regards,