Thanks Mason for the info - I must remember to take the DHM as well as my Nal .... I will reply to your PM here in just a minute - I get so confused with receptors and agonists (antagonists?)

And WHAT is the 'plasticity' that you were hoping the DHM would help with ?

The obsession is definitely gone. I guess it is knowing that I can drink. But not really wanting to. Knowing I can but not really wanting to...that made me laugh out loud. Only a freaking alkie has that kind of logic. But OH so true !!!!


Hugs, Maggie

Yeah, I am still doing the low dose at night. I don't want to have to deal with PAWS. The blast of endorphins is helping that.

DHM has the same mechanism as naltrexone, except it goes to the GABA receptors. I am definitely not a scientific mind. I can read the stuff & understand it, but then regurgitating that info to another is not one of my strong points.

The whole point seems to be about calming the receptors. When they have nothing attached, they get a bit fidgety, naltrexone & DHM calms them....and there is some evidence that they are helping to repair them. But again, different receptors.

There seems to be two factors going on with the DHM from the studies I have read, one is calming the receptors leading to less drinking over time, the other is cleaning up the toxicity of the alcohol after drinking....hence the “hangover cure”

My plan is to take the ldn at night and the DHM ½ hour before drinking. I'm really not comfortable taking both at the same time because I am dealing with brain drugs. So I am trying to cycle.

What it comes down to is, everybody is different. Not one thing is going to work for everybody. There are different things going on for different folks.... Endorphins, dopamine, serotonin, GABA..

I do encourage folks to look up Endorphin deficiency syndrome.

As far as Gabapenten...I haven't been able to find the mechanisms on that one. I did search for a few minutes but haven't had the time to check studies to see exactly what it is doing. I was taking a supplement called GABA for a while. It doesn't cross the blood brain barrier but it is good for the central nervous system. Evidently we have GABA receptors in more places than the brain.

I am no longer taking DHM on days that I am not drinking. I did a 7 day trial just for the hell of it and may revisit that later.

I did find out that there are a lot of natural things that pretty much replicate the alcohol/GABA mechanisms in the brain....kava kava, lemon balm, l-theanine (green tea) magnesium, chamomile....all of this supposedly crosses the bbb and make for some pretty good sipping teas. But my impression is while it does calm them for a while, there could very well be a rebound for some. Like I said, everybody is different.

The plasticity thing is like repairing the receptors back to pre-alcoholic time. See, cause contrary to popular belief, alcoholics are not lacking in will power & moral character. It is more about the brain.

Thanks Mason - it helps to see another's point of view and understandings on it all - I do find it confusing though and am doing my best to understand it. It seems that the DHM can either be used before drinking to help curb it, or after drinking to help with hangovers - as in the Thrive+. However, I do not actually think it helps much with the morning after so am going to stick with it for the before drinking. It did work the first time I took it but also made me sleepy - since then it hasn't done much of anything.

You do not post your tracking - how are you doing re the nal ?

Hugs, maggie

I take 3mg low dose at night and I'm doing well on it. I don't feel bad. One of the reasons I have always returned to drinking is because I felt as bad sober as I did while drinking. The endorphin boost has given me better energy, better mood. I don't have the alcohol brain fog. And I do feel as if there is some repairing going on. Hair of the dog does not even come to mind anymore since the nal. That was one of my problems...I'd binge and it may take anywhere from a week or two to put the brakes on. My binges usually consisted of 8+ until pass out and hair of the dog the next day, just to repeat the previous day. That is long gone...now I may drink 3 or so low alcohol beers once a week. I seem not ever to manage getting the whole fourth down.

One thing I did in the beginning just for experimentation, I would drink, get a buzz, even go into binge territory, then I'd take a low dose of nal. Every time it would stop me in my tracks. No drinky after that.

I've done a lot of experimentation and I am far from finished. I have full intention of setting my brain back to pre-addiction. I am going to go another few rounds with DHM while not drinking & do a few more with noopept. The low dose also. But I do plan to cycle meds.

Right now I am taking a break & fixing to go on vacation. The only thing I am doing is low dose nal. (I'm not drinking) There will be no alcohol during the vacation.

As far as confused, I stay that way...lol. I just keep reading, go with my gut and go slow and easy on dosing.

Hi Mason, I am confused, do you take 3 mg of Nal or DHM? I always take 50 mg of Nal 1 hour before drinking and now that I have just received my Thrive+ I see that each capsules is 300 mg. I read Maggie has taken 300 mg before drinking but on the directions it says 900 mg with your last drink or before bed?

Not sure how you get down to 3mg of either?

I haven't taken any of the Thrive+ yet as I went AF yesterday and am hoping to do the same today as the Nal+Drinking has made me feel awful....

Hi, Cheeto. Mason is quite certainly referring to her use of NAL. After much research, I also am using the LDN (low dose nal) approach. I found that NAL gave me the control I needed very early on. As Mason has also suggested, research into endorphin deficiency and alcoholism would suggest that shutting down the opoids for 24hrs and thus limiting the natural immune system may not be the greatest idea. Unless one is drinking for 24hrs, much less may be much better. TSM does NOT address this. LDN actually encourages the body to upgrade the immune system. THEORETICALLY. I am using 4mg NAL per night to good effect. YMMV. I strongly encourage researching all your questions. Don't limit yourself to the "book".

Steve

Thanks Steven, you both must have bought a very low dose of Nal as mine is 50 mg and I could never cut it down to 3 mg!
Nal On!

Cheeto - Steven explained to me that he crushed his 50mg tab into 50 ml of water - and can then take 4ml with a dropper, which equals 4 mg Nal ....I am starting to do this also. And I have found that the Thrive actually makes me feel ill - I took it the other night when I had had four drinks, took it before bed, and woke up feeling terrible ! Upset tummy - all the stuff that usually goes with a hangover .....The next night I also had four drinks and had no Thrive and felt just fine the next day - so I am not sure if my body likes it particularly. I have not touched it since. I am not making excuses but this is a really hard week for me and so far I have had no AF days - and have had either 3 or 4 drinks each night. I really do not like the DHM - but maybe need to stick with the 300mg instead of taking the 900mg which is what I did when I woke up the next day feeling awful.

Hugs, Maggie x

Hi Maggie, Cheeto, and all:

Funny you say that Maggie: I took my nal yesterday and also took 900mg of Thrive (and one GABA cap). I ended up not really drinking much at all - two units but they were spaced more than four hours apart. Today I feel like I have been hit by a truck!! do not feel well at all. And normally I would not have felt anything with that level of drinking. The first time I took the THRIVE it was amazing, no hangover, felt great. The second time it didn't work so well, and now this!! I think I won't be taking it again, but it was a good experiment I guess.

Maggie - are you going to switch to low dose nal? Do you think it is a good idea when you hadn't yet gotten the results you wanted from the nal? I think that both Steven and Mason were early responders, if I am not mistaken.

Just want what is best for you......supporting you no matter what of course.

Hugs from Newlife

Hey guys, OMG sorry you felt so sick on the Thrive!
I haven't taken the Thrive+ yet but was going to take it with me to a friends on Saturday night cause I know we will be drinking some wine on the patio. I think I will take it when I know the next day I can just stay in if I feel sick. I just don't want to take it at my friends and then have to visit the next day and drive home later which is about a 2 hour drive if I feel ill.
Well I will give it a try later next week and give you my report.

I surely cannot take the LDN as I have not responded to TSM yet so will just stick to the Golden Rule.

Maggie my norm is 5 drinks at least as I usually drink a bottle of wine each night, ughh!
I did have an AF day on Wednesday and wanted to have one yesterday but ended up drinking a bottle of wine again.
I am pushing for an AF day today as my sleep was horrible last night with the wine in my system.

hugs xoxox
Nal On!